INNOCENTS TO THE SLAUGHTER
Looking at this from the outside I feel the way the choices in this referendum are being portrayed are totally false.
|Choice A. Vote||YES||Could be a good move, but frightening for a lot of us|
|Choice B. Vote||NO||Get more devolved powers for Edinburgh, the best of both worlds, basically run our own show without the risk of being out there all alone in the big bad world.|
|Only Independence is available.||Improved Devolution will not be delivered.|
|Worse than that, after a NO vote.||What we have now, will no longer be available.|
Labour will not win the U.K. Election in 2015 & is unlikely to win until 2025
Aye I know you think I am talking nonsense, but it's wishful thinking on your part as I will explain later.
In the next Parliamant the Tories are planning to alter the constituency boundaries. The current boundaries discriminate against them. On average it takes more votes to elect a Tory MP than it does to elect a Labour MP. They plan to retify this. So in future elections it will be even harder to elect a Labour Government. By the time Labour get elected it will be too late. The U.K. will have changed beyond recognition.
|LONDON WILL VIEW A NO VOTE||AS THE JOCKS BOTTLING IT|
Then according to the no campaign we are going to go to London & ask for a better deal. We'll get laughed out of town & our budget slashed.
If you think London won't behave like that you are extremely naive. This is London we are talking about, the city which controlled the biggest empire the world has known. They didn't do that by being generous to those who didn't share their view of the world.
Talk politics to the vast majority of English voters & they will tell you that it's their money that is paying for our free education care for the elderly, prescriptions etc. They are not happy about it. Explain to them that there's no extra money, that it's just been used in different ways & their response is you must have been getting too much in the first place.
Yes I am afraid the standard of political awareness in England has dropped to such an extent that when the citizens, no subjects of a country that for 1000 years has been one of the most important, influential & wealthy countries on the planet are told, they can no longer have the education or health care they are used to, instead of rioting in the streets they look to the north & say they shouldn't have it.
Within 9 months of a no vote, a badly weakened Edinburgh parliament has to try & defend our budget & services & very way of life against an emboldened new Tory austerity driven administration with no seats to lose in Scotland
It's very unlikely there will be a Labour government in London before 2025 & when they do eventually win, they will have to gain favour with the south of England to get re elected.
The Tories will do nothing for Scotland, there's no votes in it.
London views Scotland as the dark side of the moon.
Labour will promise all sorts, can't deliver, one day they'll be in a position to deliver but will deliver the minimum required to keep us voting for them at U.K elections. That doesn't take a lot as they know we won't vote Tory. IS THAT WHAT WE ASPIRE TO?
So the big hitters have joined the NO campaign, Brown & Darling. They are maybe big in Scotland. That's not how they are viewed in the South of England (the only place that matters) They were not liked, too close to being the real Labour Party.
England is a Tory country, now more than ever. Pay no attention to their slump in support at the Euro elections, Tory voters will return to the fold at the Westminster elections to avoid getting a Labour government. The Scottish vote makes less impact now than it ever has. They'll be in power to at least 2025, by then even the English voter will be sick of looking at them. Labour will have a watered down manifesto & a snake oil salesman as leader who will be palatable to the disgruntled Tory voters. Labour will spend money in the South at the expense of the North in an attempt to stay in power. A LONG TIME TO WAIT FOR MORE OF THE SAME.
When Brown & Darling tell you otherwise, you have to remember they are like two fleas debating which direction the dogs going to take. They might appear important influential people in Scotland, but in the grand scheme of things fleas have more influence.
O.K. So you don't believe me. Labours going to win next time. The amount of times I've heard that, strangely enough only in Scotland.
Don't take my word for it. Work it out for yourself. History repeats itself.
Thatcher & Major not elected by us but in power for a very long time. So long even the English Tories got sick of looking at them. Along comes a snake oil salesman with a watered down manifesto. "We won't put taxes up but we'll make everything better. Thanks Tony, we'll have some of that. Until he was replaced by someone resembling the Labour Party. Remember Gordon Brown replaced Blair, but was never elected Prime Minister.
HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF,
UNLESS YOU TAKE THIS OPORTUNITY TO CHANGE HISTORY
What's wrong with people who allow other people in another country to run their country?
We are worse. A NO VOTE means, YOU are allowing other people's Tories to run our country.
Get some backbone.
A PARTNERSHIP OF EQUALS
Better together try to portray an image of a partnership of nations pulling together for the greater good.
The original Act of Union in 1707 was signed in a stable behind the parliament building in Edinburgh, because a riotous mob were storming parliament in an attempt to stop the great & the good of the day from signing our country away for personal gain. "a parcel of rogues, bought & sold for English gold". ( Robert Burns)
There were riots across the country when news got out.
The Union was not a partnership of nations but an incorporating union. England, after 1000 years of trying to annex Scotland by force, wised up & decided to bribe us. One of the few countries in the world never to be conquered, "bought & sold for English gold."
Such an uneven union should never be contemplated by any country unless the alternative is starvation.
The modern equivalent of the great & the good of 1707 are determined to keep the union, so they can keep their snouts in the Westminster trough, spend 80% of their time on matters which are irrelevant to their constituents & hope for promotion to a prominent position in London & the prestige that comes with it. Better for the ego than spending 100% of their time on matters which concern us in the less glamorous Holyrood.
Things are even worse now. It's no longer England that controls what happens in our country, but the all powerful London, "a city state" which now controls everything that happens in these islands, they care little for Birmingham or Manchester, never mind us in Scotland (the dark side of the moon). Their priority is always London.
I'm all for partnerships. Lets have a partnership of equals.
If being a member of the U.K. is so good why do they have to tell so many lies in an attempt to stop us voting YES.
WE CAN'T SURVIVE ON OUR OWN
Not according to Cameron, Osborne, Brown & Darling. "Of course Scotland could prosper as an independent country". But they claim we are better off as part of the U.K. & then proceed in an attempt to disprove what they just admitted.
For each of the last 30 years we've paid more to Westminster in taxes than we got back & then they tell us we are subsidised by London.
If you compare our economic figures with that of the U.K Scotland ranks 14th wealthiest country in the world, income per head. The U.K. 18TH. (Google O.E.C.D. & see BBC politics website)
Yes campaign say we'll be £1500 a year better off. No campaign varies from £500 to £1500 worse off if we're Independent.
Obviously in any political campaign you would be naive to believe the financial figures on either side. It's unlikely we would be £1500 a year better off with independence and unlikely we would be £1500 worse off. Let's suspend logic for a moment and ignore the fact that using the universally accepted O.E.C.D figures we would be wealthier & pretend we'd be worse off. By £500 a year, that's £9.61 a week. So if things go badly wrong it could cost us a tenner a week to have democracy.
Who knows? One thing we all know is austerity. Tory cuts have barely begun. Within the next few years as a member of the U.K. We will be £1500 a year worse off. Count on it.
CAN'T USE THE POUND
Nonsense any country in the world can use the pound & Scotland would at the same exchange rate as England. The only debate is whether there would be an official currency union. London says this will never happen, though recently a government minister got his knuckles wrapped for suggesting a deal would be done.
Here are some facts.
The Bank Of England is state owned, i.e. the U.K. Taxpayer. It doesn't belong to London or England but to all the tax payers of the U.K. That means on Independence day we the Scottish taxpayer, would still own a share of the Bank of England or have to be compensated.
London has stated that in the event of Scottish Independence all U.K debt would be the responsibility of the remainder of the U.K. Not Scotland's responsibility. However in the negotiations to divide U.K. Assets, we would obviously be expected to take our share of the debt, repaying it to London, not to the original lender.
Salmond has stated that we would be entitled to currency union as we are joint owners of The Bank of England. London is saying no to this because they think it's a good way of frightening the peasants.
Why a currency union would happen.
You have to look at the U.K. National Debt. It's one of the worst in the world, worse than Ireland & Portugal, two countries that have been in the news, having to be bailed out by the International Monetary Fund because they couldn't borrow at a reasonable interest rate because of their huge debt.
Our debt is worse, we get away with it because the U.K. Government borrows money at 2% created out of thin air by The Bank of England, which is state owned.
At the end of the financial year the Bank of England which is state owned sends it's profit back to the state i.e. the U.K. Government.
That's why we wouldn't join the Euro. Nothing to do with keeping the Queen on the money.
We're printing money for nothing. It's the only way any country can cope with such a ridiculously large debt.
Pre U.K. England first went into debt in 1694 & as far as I can tell they, Britain & then the U.K. have never been debt free since. In the last 30 years the debt has increased enormously at a time when the Scottish economy is producing large surpluses.
You have to understand that the lenders of this money have never & never will want it back, they want interest on it for evermore.
Our share of this debt is unaffordable in normal circumstances, only by being involved in the money printing scam at The Bank of England can any country afford to service this level of debt.
That's why Salmond says if we're not allowed a share of the assets, we can't be expected to take our share of the debt.
On Independence Day we could be living in a country with no debt. The NO campaign tell us the world would shun us if we reneged on the debt. They seem to have forgotten that London has stated that an Independent Scotland would not be responsible for U.K. Debt. The money markets would love to lend to a debt free asset rich country like Scotland.
This is possible but unfortunately an unlikely outcome.
It's in London government's interest to have a currency union. We are England's second largest market place. That's all by the by because it's not down to government, it's down to the people who really run the show. Nothing big happens in this country without their say so. Who are they? They are the people who lent the money in the first place.
They don't want change. That's why there's such an effort to frighten us into voting no.
If we can escape with a YES vote there will be a currency union because the people who lent the money in the first place would demand it.
When you hear people talking about "old money" They don't mean someone whose Grandad made a lot of money. They mean the people who for centuries have used their influence & wealth to control cities & countries. These people are not interested in politics or nationalities only in money. Their money is less secure if there's 5 million fewer tax payers contributing towards the interest on the money lent.
Talking of debt, we have been running at a profit for the last 30 years & it is at least perceived that England is a wealthy productive country but the U.K. debt has increased enormously in that time. What the hell has London done with the money? Time we were in charge of our own cash.
We won't be allowed in.
Do me a favour, no one's allowed out of the E.U. (look at Greece)
Quotes from E.U. officials stating there's no mechanism for a country seceding from a member state & remaining a member doesn't apply to us.
I know we are ignorant of our own history, but surely most of us have heard of The Act of Union.
The official name of the state we live in is The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, & this state is the member of the European Union. Not Britain, not England.
If we vote YES we are NOT seceding from a State. We are dissolving The Act of Union, a legal treaty between Scotland & England which created Great Britain. If there's no Great Britain there can't possibly be a United Kingdom Of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Therefore at that point none of us are in the European Union.
A deal would be done. They want Scotland, the E.U. biggest oil & gas producer, large fishing territory etc. etc.
They can't let a big player like England leave. Others might follow
Iceland, Norway & Switzerland have never been in the E.U. but have a free trade agreement. The Scottish people have been within the E.U. for decades. It's not credible to suggest that we would not at least have free trade. They want Scotland, The E.U's biggest oil and gas producer, large fishing territory etc. etc.
A DEAL WOULD BE DONE
So for arguments sake you accept everything so far. But why take the risk? You'd rather keep things as they are.
Unfortunately this is not an option. Further meaningful devolution will not be delivered. Worse than that! London will view a NO VOTE as the jocks bottling it & slash the budget.
Tories will be in control of U.K government in all likelihood until 2025.
The only CERTAINTY is in a no vote. NOT MORE OF THE SAME BUT LESS. Scotland's budget will be cut risking the services you cherish. Free education, care for the elderly, free prescriptions etc. Not to mention rising unemployment.
A YES VOTE, doesn't give us guarantees but the possibility to make progress & the power to get rid of governments we don't like.
SO YOUR A LABOUR SUPPORTER next u.k. Labour gov 2025.
Me too, well used to be. First had to leave Scotland in 1981 to find work in the South of England. At home couldn't get a job for love nor money. South of England got three job offers on my first day.
Made me think. Been angry ever since.
Used to come home & tell people there was loads of work in the South of England. As they listened I could tell they didn't believe me. Same look they give me when I say Labour won 't win the next election. We are all products of the propaganda we've been fed.
Scottish Labour Party, saviours of the working classes were telling us that things were bad all over,
(they weren't) stick with us & things will get better soon.
Late 70's 80's the Nationalist were claiming an Independent Scotland would have a budget surplus of 2 to 3 billion pounds per year. This was back when a billion was a lot of money. The Scottish Office budget at the time I think was around 12 to 15 billion.
All the London controlled parties claimed the Nationalist were talking nonsense, I remember Scottish Labour saying "don't listen to fantasy island economics, stick with us the saviour's of the working classes" Unfortunately for Labour the actual figures are released after 30 years & unfortunately for us ,the Nationalist's figures were an underestimate.
We should have had 40 years of huge surpluses to transform the lives of our people. Compare that to the circumstances most of us experienced in the 1980's & 90's
So all the major political leaders of the time were lying to us. Most of them probably have knighthoods now for services rendered to the state, not the people.
There would be plenty of genuine people in all the major parties who were working on the assumption the lies were true.
Let's talk about the people at the top. They knew. Tories, Liberals, Labour the saviour's of the working classes. ALL GUILTY. It's Labour that annoy me the most. We know what the Tories are. Who knows what the Liberals are. BUT the Labour Party are supposed to be our party, the saviours of the Scottish working classes, leading from the front inspiring our people to greater & greater achievements.
Turns out they weren't.
I've heard it said that we should try these individuals with TREASON.
I like the sound of that but it wouldn't work.
It would be impossible to try them with treason. THEIR ALLEGIANCE WAS NEVER TO US
Couldn't make it up. We've been voting for people whose allegiance was never to us.
They are guilty not of treason but of deception.
We are guilty of allowing ourselves to be taken for mugs.
DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE ON SEPTEMBER THE 18TH
SO YOUR A LIB DEM SUPPORTER
Not having a good time. Supping with the devil was never a good idea.
O.K. So you may be saving us from some of the worst of the Tories. You'll get no thanks.
Please stop talking about a federal Britain. Hell will freeze over first.
Re build in Edinburgh, play your part in an Independent Scotland in our P.R. Parliament.
SO YOUR A SECRET CONSERVATIVE
You don't want to live in a country run by the left wingers of Labour & the S.N.P.
I would suggest to you that any future Scottish Government would be a lot closer to the centre than is generally perceived, a bit further left than you would like. But better for you than an uncaring London government.
At the moment you probably feel the political & cultural mood of our country is firmly in the grip of the left. Quite possibly so. I would say as a result of The Scottish Tory Party going against the wishes of the majority & attempting to "save us from ourselves".
ALL PEOPLE NEED THEIR OWN VERSION OF EVENTS whether they are right or wrong.
The Tories mistake was to ignore that fact & not make allowances for the democratic deficit during the Thatcher & Major years. This has led to the destruction of the Scottish Conservative Party & as a result you now being denied your own version of events.
Imagine a YES vote, a chance for the centre right to re establish itself.
As one of your own, Murdo Fraser proposed a couple of years back. Dissolve the poisoned brand that is the Scottish Conservative Party & form a new centre right party that would within a few years be capable of being part of coalition government & allow your version of events to be aired
Labour, a social democratic S.N.P, Liberal Dem & a new centre right party
Most of us could bring ourselves to vote for two of these parties. That would be progress.
I, like a lot of people, can't remember ever feeling that I could bring myself to vote for any of the others. It would be good to have a choice, I think they call that DEMOCRACY.
SO YOU LIVE IN A REMOTE AREA
The MP for Orkney & Shetland is fond of saying his constituency is as far from Edinburgh as the central belt is from London. So London's twice as far.
Two big differences between London & Central Scotland.
- The people in the central belt actually know where Orkney & Shetland are.
- Central Scotland cares, London doesn't.
London gives away fishing rights, does deals on agriculture to the detriment of rural Scotland to get a better deal on finance etc because that suits the only place that matters, the South East of England.
No doubt Edinburgh will always have advantages over most of us but in a small country like ours Edinburgh actually needs the rest of the country to prosper.
Not something London loses sleep over.
SO YOUR A YOUNG VOTER
What's happened to you, ?????????? you're supposed to be radical.
Opinion polls show the young are the most opposed to Independence. Whys that?
Many moons ago when I was young it was our age group that was the most in favour of Independence.
I've noticed you're not as angry as we were. Probably a good thing. You have no memory of direct misrule from London by a Tory party with no Scottish MPs.
The economy's better than it was, could be better but certainly better than the 1980's & 90's
Your maybe content with the constitutional arrangements. The Edinburgh Parliament has limited powers but is capable of agitating to get Scotland a reasonable deal from London. Economy's not so good now, good job's are scarce, but could be back to normal within a couple of years.
Unfortunately NORMAL IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. Ask people your parents age about the Scottish economy & they'll tell you the decade before the financial crash of 2008 was the best they've seen.
You either caught the tail end of this work wise or you grew up at a time when your parents were benefiting from an abundance of work. This is not normal for the Scottish economy as part of the U.K.
Let me explain.
British economic cycles normally run approx 4 to 7 years. Growth begins in London, slowly spreads throughout the U.K. By the time it gets to the North of England & Scotland the London economy is overheating, inflation etc. The government takes measures to calm the booming economy in London. Unfortunately these measures have a detrimental effect on the Scottish economy which is only just recovering from the last recession. The green shoots of recovery die. London sometime later experiences a downturn, changes policy & the cycle begins again. Therefore the Scottish economy spends all it's time in low growth or recession.
The decade before the 2008 crash was different. It was boom time for Scotland. This happened because the U.K. economy grew for 17 years straight. Not one quarter of negative figures.
Unprecedented in modern British economic history.
How did this happen? Simple. The unregulated credit boom. Governments around the world falsely inflated the market with cheap credit to keep the boom going. Great for a while but that's what caused the great crash of 2008. Our economy is still today smaller than it was in 2007.
The boom is not coming back. It's back to low growth & long periods of recession for the Scottish economy as policy is made to suit the South of England.
A NO VOTE will make the Scottish parliament weaker than ever before!
A country where 85% of the people claim to hate everything about the Tories will just have voted to be ruled by other people's Tories. Labour will not win the 2015 U.K. election. Unlikely to win before 2025. Don't let the Euro election collapse in the Tory vote fool you. Come U.K. election time they will return to the fold to avoid getting a Labour government.
London will slash the Scottish budget, fewer jobs, an end to free education, care for the elderly etc.
It will be your turn to do what many generations before you have had to do, pack a bag & leave home in search of better prospects.
We could try & make a better job of it ourselves. No guarantee's, no quick fixes but HOPE of a better future.
SENIOR CITIZENS WORRIED ABOUT THEIR PENSIONS
The pensioners friend Gordon Brown in his first speech for the no campaign tells us an Independent Scotland would have a black hole in our national insurance budget & this could put your pensions at risk. Pensions are not paid from national insurance but from general taxation. For each of the last 30 years we have paid more in taxes to Westminster than we got back .Our country runs at a profit.
So what's with Gordon? Is he just an establishment yes man or does he truly believe we'd be better together but feels we can't be trusted with the true figures. Is he trying to save us from ourselves? Isn't that what led to the destruction of the Tory Party?
What he said in his first speech for the no campaign was tantamount to lying or at least deception. Is there a difference?
Come on, how long are you expecting to live? How fast do you think we can screw it up? You've got nothing to worry about, no matter what the messengers of doom would have you believe, your the one group that turn out to vote in large numbers, your pension will be maintained no matter what. The biggest risk to your well being are the cuts that are coming after a no vote, from a London government with no seats to lose in Scotland. Tory cuts have just started. You've seen nothing yet.
You've been around long enough to know that after 300 years of union we're still at the back of the queue & that won't change. O.K! So you haven't been around for the full 300 years but you've seen enough to know it ain’t gonna get better unless we do it ourselves.
LONDON VIEW'S SCOTLAND AS THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
I realise that some of us even when we accept the positive evidence still don't want to commit to a YES vote. A lifetime of negative messages obviously has an effect. Keep thinking positively. Hopefully by September the 18th you'll be able to say YES.
Don't let FEAR win. Lets have some HOPE in our lives. I know all politicians are the same. But we could have a little window here. In the next 5 years we could be one of the few places on earth where our politicians are actually genuinely doing their bit for the greater good. Don't laugh. Seriously if Salmond, Sturgeon & co achieve their life time's ambition of Independence & get elected as our first government I think even us cynics would have to admit their intentions would be admirable. So you don't like Salmond. Doesn't matter. If he leads Scotland's first government in 300 years how could you say he wouldn't have the finest of intentions.
Certainly preferable to being ruled by Cameron Osborne & the disreputable Palace of Westminster.
FEAR OR HOPE. You chose.
THE ENGLISH BORN RESIDENT OF SCOTLAND
So you don't want to live in a foreign country. Being born in England you will always be entitled to citizenship of England. Being resident in Scotland on Independence Day entitles you to citizenship here. Two passports are better than one.
Most of you are different to most of the Scots living south of the border. We are mainly desperate economic migrants. Just one more year & we'll go back home & buy the house on the hill.
Most English residents of Scotland chose to move for reasons other than economics. We should be flattered. You must like it here. Is it the weather?
Everything on this web page applies to you as much as anyone else in Scotland.
O.K. So we're never going to support the same football team but amazingly enough there is actually more important things than football. Please don't go for an automatic NO vote. Look at the issues & make a judgement about what you think will bring a better future for all the residents of this country. You know from personal experience that apart from your immediate friends & family, the people south of the border know little of Scotland. London in particular, the seat of power, view the country in which you live as the dark side of the moon.
Travelling through our country this summer it seems to me that it's only the YES voters who have engaged in the debate. Motivated, positive, full of ideas about what our country can aspire to after a YES vote. Still in a minority at the moment. Hopefully that will change. The rest of the population. Some are naysayers engaged in project fear. Most have not engaged, but have heard the usual lies from proven liars & have switched off deciding change is too risky. Having just read this web site I hope you now agree voting NO is where the greater risk lies.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE FOLLOWING SENARIO?
Scotland is already an independent state with a similar economy as we have now & we are being asked to vote on joining a union with England.
In return for the benefits of union we would have to give up control of certain things to the London Parliament.
Oil revenue, revenue from general taxation, VAT, control of Welfare, Defence etc etc. Never fear, it's not as bad as it sounds.
We would still have influence as we would be represented in Westminster. We would have 8% of the MPs who vote on these matters.
Does that sound appealing to you?
SO WHO HAVE WE NOT YET ADDRESSED?
Yes! you. There are so many of you. All you negative, miserable, whining people with nothing positive to say. Probably the majority of us. We are certainly a doom & gloom country. Gold medals for whining.
Nothing Scottish is ever good enough.
Always compare ourselves to the worst, never the best.
Pathetic little Scotland could never manage on our own. Despite all the evidence.
Would England take us back if it all went wrong.
The left wingers would ruin the country.
No point trying. The money people wouldn't allow it.
The oils about to run out.
The Pope would take over. The Orangemen would persecute us.
All the jobs would leave the country.
It's too late. Should have done it after the war.
Think everywhere else is better run, councils etc. You should see some London councils.
Looking for guarantees on every single issue? This referendum is not about individual polices It's about who elects the people who make our policies & about having the ability to remove them if they implement policies we don't like.
All the evidence is out there pointing to a positive future. It's the vast number of people in our country with such ridiculously negative views that show how desperately we need Independence.
On September the 18th if you can't think positive thoughts, just stay in bed & pull the covers over your head & hide from the responsibility that most people in the world take for granted, running their own country.
Leave it to the positive thinkers amongst us.
You could get some positivity &
Great feel better now, I've got that of my chest. Hope you are in agreement. Read more than once. Especially the explanation of why Labour won't win until 2025. When you grasp the logic you can see there's no chance of a Labour victory any time soon.
Please spread the word. Email this to everyone you know & print & copy for the technophobic.
The Exiled Plumber.
I can hear it now. It's O.K. for me not currently living in the country. I don't have to face the consequences of it all going wrong.
A NO vote is when it all goes wrong. I will suffer the consequences emotionally but not financially.
A NO vote means I will continue to enjoy the benefits of Scotland's resources to the full as I live
SHOCKING RECENT DEVELOPEMENT
The Tories have recently announced their proposals to increase devolved powers. Ruth Davidson announces that our current Parliament is only "a pocket money Parliament" so in an effort to improve the situation the Tories will give Edinburgh the power to raise 60% of its own revenue. This makes the Tory proposals the most ambitious of any of the U.K Parties. I immediately discounted it as pie in the sky that would never be delivered. Can't believe I was so naive.
If we fail to convince the majority to vote YES in September, the re election of the Tories in the U.K in 2015 will be met with disbelief in Scotland. A huge outcry would follow. The Tories would respond to this with improved devolution. This would be welcomed by the gullible as increased democracy.
The reality of the situation is. The Tories have given up on Scotland, but Empire mentality means they can't let us go. The advocates of devolution often describe it as the best of both worlds. This latest plan certainly would be for the Tories.
Increased tax raising powers mean the block grant from central government will have to be reduced, the arithmetic being done by a Tory Party with no seats to lose in Scotland. Better still with the Edinburgh Parliament doing so much more there won't be a need for so many non Tory MP'S travelling from Scotland to Westminster. Best of both worlds for the Tory Party. Not so good for us, we have a parliament committed to maintaining services, but with few ways of stimulating wealth creation. But with the ability to increase our tax.
Not bad for all of us though.
Ruth Davidson will do O.K she will be parachuted into a safe Tory seat in England & before long a ministerial position. It's only right that she gets rewarded for services rendered, after all most of our previous secretary’s of state got Knighthoods.
Don't let it happen.
The ACCOUNTING TRICKS see www.businessforscotland.co.uk
THE McCRONE REPORT see Wikipedia Produced in the 70's. Government kept it secret. When it became available due to the freedom of information act in 2005 none of the major news outlets in Scotland reported on it. Check it out.
Please promote this message & web site every way you can within the confines of the law.
Jan 2017 Update
So too many of us believed the usual lies from the usual liers. The NO side won.
Much to rage about since in the way of broken promises etc etc Are you surprised?
I was telling everyone, tweeting etc., that Cameron had to get something on immigration from Brussels before the vote, or England would drag us out of E.U.
Many places in England, the English feel overwhelmed by Johnny foreigner & they don't like it.
Never mind the pros & cons of the debate. They don't like it. End of story.
That was the main reason, plus the following contributed.
The English used to rule the world & now the French & Germans are telling them what to do.
Every time a voter complained about something in the last 30 yrs, U.K. Politicians have said "it's not our fault, it's Brussels"
PROJECT FEAR. Backlash against it
It worked well in Scotland in 2014 because Scotland is a country full of fear.
England is not. The average English person has a high opinion of their country. Even those in dire straits have a faith in England that's not easily dented. There was a backlash against project fear.
SO ENGLAND VOTES TO LEAVE
We have to follow : the price of "the EQUAL PARTNERSHIP of nations"
WHAT TO DO ? INDY 2 A.S.A.P. OR BIDE OUR TIME
Unfortunately I don't think YES side can win any time soon, 45% when the economy was good & oil price was high. Some of the 45% voted to leave E.U.
Now we have low oil price & uncertainty over whether the E.U will even exist in 5 years time.
Some of the 45% may not vote yes under those circumstances. Voting to join a club that soon may not exist.
I realise that even a lot of No voters are seriously upset at Westminster's behaviour since Sept 14 but I do not believe enough will change to YES under current uncertain circumstances.
We have to let the dust settle around Brexit & see how the land lies.
We have to win the next Indy referendum. It could be at least 5 years away.
The establishment media are trying to goad Nicola into an early poll, to defeat her & put the issue to bed for 20 years.
Bide our time & go to work on all the NO voters you can find. Every year Westminster will provide us with more & more ammunition.
Lots of Yes people think we can win now. I am afraid they are guilty of spending to much time with like minded people. Get talking to NO voters.
HERE'S AN IDEA THE TORY PARTY I S THE MOST UNIONIST OF ALL OUR PARTIES
Time to change that. INFILTRATE. Time for all of you left of centre nats to stop preaching to the converted, join the Tory Party & sing the party song, change from within.( Look how Momentum has taken over the English Labour Party). Independence cannot be achieved by the left alone. We need to get the centre right on board.
Brexit vote was closely followed by a right wing take over of the U.K government.
That and Momentum's take over of the English Labour Party making them unelectable and threatening their very existence, means we are all in for a tough time in the next few year.
Cutting disability benefits & raising MP'S salary in the same week.
Central Government cuts (not opposed by Labour). When your services are cut everyone blames SNP.
English Health Secretary still in a job after all the blatant lies he's told as he's preparing NHS for privatisation and starving it of funds. France, Germany,Holland all invest more in health than the U.K.
A Government with a slim 10 seat majority, can only get away with such things because the Labour party is a shambles. Who's behind Momentum: The Tories, MI5?
When was the last time you looked at a UK Politician & believed they were doing their bit for the greater good?
I still say we have to bide our time. We MUST win next time.
CURRENT INDEPENDENCE DEBATE Cart before the horse losing potential YES votes.
This web site has tried to appeal to the widest possible audience as that is how we win a YES vote.
Here's my opinion on where the debate is going off message. “A perfect world “cannot even be aspired to unless we win.
Any time you out debate a NO voter on the merits of Independence they resort to complaining about certain proposed policies. I prefer to remain part of U.K rather than have to except this, that & the other.
Too many of us are putting the cart before the horse. This, that & the other are not required at this time. Worse of all can alienate potential YES voters.
Consistently a small majority of Scottish voters approve of nukes in a U.K context. The only way we get rid of them is with Independence. So what's the point of continually ranting about them when all it can do is lose us potential YES voters. Reality. Independent Scotland will have to keep them for at least a while. It's not all bad. They are our best bargaining chip.
Did you know that days before our pretend parliament came into being our then Secretary of State Donald Dewar signed a deal with Tony Blair which transferred hundred of square miles of our East coast seabed to English Jurisdiction. The pretence was that it was to enable English Fisheries to get a bigger grant from the E.U. IT CONTAINS SEVERAL OIL FIELDS. That's how the U.K government can produce figures that say Scotland runs at a deficit.
I know Mr Dewar was a believer in the Union but ????????? Maybe that was the price of his statue in Glasgow?
30 MILES off Edinburgh. English territory. 70 MILES off Fife. English territory. Couldn't make it up.
Back to NUKES on the Clyde they are American. The U.K leases them from the USA.
Picture the scene. YES win the referendum. President of USA phones Nicola & says despite the fact you bad mouthed me before my election, I can meet you for a photo shoot in front of Edinburgh Castle & I'll tell the world Scotland's a country the USA can do business with or we will totally f------ you up. Nukes on the Clyde ? Up to you, Nicola.
“Nicola says well Mr President, my people don't want them. The only way I can sell this to the public is on a 15 year lease providing you phone London & tell them to give us back our East coast seabed. They won't need it now they are not in the E.U. At the same time tell the Prime Minister that as we are shareholders in the Bank of England & our Unicorn is on the money, we shall continue to use the Pound.”( former Bank of England chairman Eddie George recently admitted it would work ok).
See! Nukes ain't all bad. Any other outcome is just fantasy, a timetable to get rid is the best we can achieve.
It's not just "racist English" people who have concerns about immigration. A lot of our fellow Scottish citizens are dead against it. Doesn't mean they are racist. Have to stop shouting down everyone who disagrees with us.
Screaming about what kind of immigration policy a future Scottish government might have only alienates some potential YES voters. Remember as events continually show, YOUR OPINION CURRENTLY COUNTS FOR NOTHING. Only after Independence is achieved can the majority view in our country prevail.
Seem they're very vocal in Scotland at the moment. Reminds me of when I first moved to London in the eighties .The people in the media & politics who were representing the Labour Party bore no resemblance to what the Labour Party meant to me. They had read about the plight of the workers & decided socialism was a good idea. The fact that they only read about it & have never lived it explains why their idea of socialism is very different from mine. Political correctness gone mad,demanding this demanding that. Telling you how to think, this contributed to a huge loss of support for Labour in working class areas in southern England.
I feel a large majority of our voters from centre left to centre right want a modern version of "Old Labour" - good provision of service, social care & at the same time business friendly so we can generate enough money to pay for it. SNP is as close as we can get to this at the moment.
Lovey lefties are continually shouting about politically correctness. This just alienates certain types. We need all sorts to vote YES. You should not have to reach a certain criteria before being allowed to vote Yes. A perfect world can only be aspired to after a referendum victory.
It is very important that people are not discriminated against in any way. It's good that there are laws in place to provide protection.
It's time to stop preaching,in reality legal protection is as good as it gets. Certain people will never accept certain things for whatever reason. Demanding they do just creates resentment & hate. Also loses potential YES voters. Time to pipe down & with the passage of time maybe we can all be more accepting of each other.
Constitutional debate should be about just that : need to get the power to make our own decisions. Airing a wide array of conflicting wish lists about what we might do after that is achieved only jeopardises the chances of reaching our goal. Stop alienating potential Yes voters.
There you go. I managed to resist telling you who I will never accept & what I think on a whole range of issues because the most important thing is that all of us highly opinionated know alls put our differences aside & work towards a YES VOTE.
After that's achieved we can have a huge rammy about the way forward.
REGARDS (the still) EXILED PLUMBER
Has SNP victory gone to their heads, they think they should be giving opinions on the elected representative of the American people.
20/30% of our own people think Trump's doing the right things. Not only are you losing us potential Yes votes you are making an enemy of the world's most powerful man. At this rate we will have a Scottish President of USA siding with Tory England against us.
SHUT THE HELL UP.
DO WHAT YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN
A YES MAJORITY